Comments on: Oracle Forms 11g – under construction http://technology.amis.nl/blog/1239/oracle-forms-11g-under-construction Weblog for the AMIS Technology corner Fri, 10 Feb 2012 16:47:37 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9 hourly 1 By: Geert Halsberghe http://technology.amis.nl/blog/1239/oracle-forms-11g-under-construction/comment-page-1#comment-348219 Geert Halsberghe Fri, 17 Apr 2009 07:46:37 +0000 http://technology.amis.nl/blog/?p=1239#comment-348219 Is there already a new release date (or possible release date) known for Forms 11g? Is there already a new release date (or possible release date) known for Forms 11g?

]]> By: Grant Ronald http://technology.amis.nl/blog/1239/oracle-forms-11g-under-construction/comment-page-1#comment-321629 Grant Ronald Wed, 21 May 2008 08:55:23 +0000 http://technology.amis.nl/blog/?p=1239#comment-321629 FYI - Oracle Forms 11g New Features webinar now available at http://otn.oracle.com/goto/formsmodernize FYI – Oracle Forms 11g New Features webinar now available at http://otn.oracle.com/goto/formsmodernize

]]> By: Jean-Marc Desvaux http://technology.amis.nl/blog/1239/oracle-forms-11g-under-construction/comment-page-1#comment-255257 Jean-Marc Desvaux Tue, 07 Aug 2007 09:36:11 +0000 http://technology.amis.nl/blog/?p=1239#comment-255257 ADF has a huge potential but won't be able to compete very soon with Forms on lots of ground including developer productivity and most importantly as an effective solution for lots of day to day business applications with heavy data entries workloads and where you need very short response time. If once dare to replace these apps with ADF today, he takes the risk of triggering a Forms end-users sit-in ! That's why Forms HAS to remain. Sure that every Forms developers are not happy to be restricted to one architecture to deploy and would have prefer to retain the choice of C/S and Web. Qui peut le plus peut le moins (tentative of translation: once who can do much can do less) ! To my opinion, to make sure 100% of forms developers stick to Oracle dev. tools, Oracle should provide a lighter way (both technically and financially) to deploy form. 6 years ago, I thought that Oracle strategy with Forms will be to progressively make the whole forms stack sit on an ADF kind of framework by introducing a hidden layer to progressively evolve forms framework to an ADF framework keeping the Forms builder tool to retain the Forms development experience. But this was utopia. Sure that the move to J2EE/ADF is putting a lot of pressure on IT Depts and is adding to the fact that they had or have to move to AS which was not required before and is much slower than in a C/S terminal servers or Citrix servers deployment where Web access is not a requirement. But to my opinion, (very optimistic one) we need to put our energy in Forms and ADF and as we move forward and ADF evolves, we will be at the end ADF pros...and will be able to rip the associated benefits. ADF has a huge potential but won’t be able to compete very soon with Forms on lots of ground including developer productivity and most importantly as an effective solution for lots of day to day business applications with heavy data entries workloads and where you need very short response time. If once dare to replace these apps with ADF today, he takes the risk of triggering a Forms end-users sit-in !
That’s why Forms HAS to remain.
Sure that every Forms developers are not happy to be restricted to one architecture to deploy and would have prefer to retain the choice of C/S and Web.
Qui peut le plus peut le moins (tentative of translation: once who can do much can do less) ! To my opinion, to make sure 100% of forms developers stick to Oracle dev. tools, Oracle should provide a lighter way (both technically and financially) to deploy form.
6 years ago, I thought that Oracle strategy with Forms will be to progressively make the whole forms stack sit on an ADF kind of framework by introducing a hidden layer to progressively evolve forms framework to an ADF framework keeping the Forms builder tool to retain the Forms development experience. But this was utopia.
Sure that the move to J2EE/ADF is putting a lot of pressure on IT Depts and is adding to the fact that they had or have to move to AS which was not required before and is much slower than in a C/S terminal servers or Citrix servers deployment where Web access is not a requirement.
But to my opinion, (very optimistic one) we need to put our energy in Forms and ADF and as we move forward and ADF evolves, we will be at the end ADF pros…and will be able to rip the associated benefits.

]]> By: Soltesz http://technology.amis.nl/blog/1239/oracle-forms-11g-under-construction/comment-page-1#comment-202109 Soltesz Sat, 10 Mar 2007 13:50:12 +0000 http://technology.amis.nl/blog/?p=1239#comment-202109 In our business area clients cannot (and don't want to) pay for web deployment. They are happy with the client-server app as it is. We built a file server based launching environment which is as good for centralising the code as the web deployment. We understand that ORACLE wants a lot of money for their app server but nobody in Forms development actually needs it. It keeps most of the Forms based applications on 6i which is a shame because the XML based source format would be a great thing (among other thing we could move to Subversion finally). What we would really need is a full-Java Forms/Reports Runtime which can be installed with WebStart. If we get this soon, we will stay on Forms, otherwise we are going to move to Java Swing. In this case, of course, we will be very careful NOT to choose anything from ORACLE. ORACLE ADF is a nonsense, since it requires a huge licensing fee if you deploy on non-ORACLE application servers. In our business area clients cannot (and don’t want to) pay for web deployment. They are happy with the client-server app as it is. We built a file server based launching environment which is as good for centralising the code as the web deployment.
We understand that ORACLE wants a lot of money for their app server but nobody in Forms development actually needs it. It keeps most of the Forms based applications on 6i which is a shame because the XML based source format would be a great thing (among other thing we could move to Subversion finally).
What we would really need is a full-Java Forms/Reports Runtime which can be installed with WebStart. If we get this soon, we will stay on Forms, otherwise we are going to move to Java Swing. In this case, of course, we will be very careful NOT to choose anything from ORACLE. ORACLE ADF is a nonsense, since it requires a huge licensing fee if you deploy on non-ORACLE application servers.

]]> By: Mueller http://technology.amis.nl/blog/1239/oracle-forms-11g-under-construction/comment-page-1#comment-178299 Mueller Thu, 21 Dec 2006 17:52:07 +0000 http://technology.amis.nl/blog/?p=1239#comment-178299 Was at DOAG Conference Nov. 2006 in Manheim, Germany. The Forms product manager spoke on a "forms future" session. The information given about is correct in general. But it was interesting to hear between the lines from the forms product manager: He has very few ressources. What does this mean? I don't know - but with no ressources you can't move much. So my DOAG conclusion: For big and complex applications -> move to ADF. Nearby you can run APEX for smaller applications. Run both, bot no Forms anymore. Sorry, this is my oppinion. Was at DOAG Conference Nov. 2006 in Manheim, Germany.
The Forms product manager spoke on a “forms future” session. The information given about is correct in general. But it was interesting to hear between the lines from the forms product manager: He has very few ressources. What does this mean? I don’t know – but with no ressources you can’t move much.
So my DOAG conclusion: For big and complex applications -> move to ADF. Nearby you can run APEX for smaller applications. Run both, bot no Forms anymore.
Sorry, this is my oppinion.

]]> By: Juan Carlos Reyes http://technology.amis.nl/blog/1239/oracle-forms-11g-under-construction/comment-page-1#comment-99345 Juan Carlos Reyes Wed, 23 Aug 2006 23:21:30 +0000 http://technology.amis.nl/blog/?p=1239#comment-99345 Hi, Even more there is not need to have applicatoin server, to have a zero installation developer runtime and developer. Setting variables in a bat is enough, it works really good. we got developer 6i zero instalation, one of the major reasons to go to application server. I always had been complaining about to force to use application server to upgrade, when your customers has at maximum 10 client conections, this is forgot about oracle standard edition customer. Anyway we are planning to move in the future to java, definetively there is the future, the other better chance is net. :) Hi,

Even more there is not need to have applicatoin server, to have a zero installation developer runtime and developer.

Setting variables in a bat is enough, it works really good. we got developer 6i zero instalation, one of the major reasons to go to application server.

I always had been complaining about to force to use application server to upgrade, when your customers has at maximum 10 client conections, this is forgot about oracle standard edition customer.

Anyway we are planning to move in the future to java, definetively there is the future, the other better chance is net.
:)

]]> By: CK Lee http://technology.amis.nl/blog/1239/oracle-forms-11g-under-construction/comment-page-1#comment-91551 CK Lee Wed, 09 Aug 2006 09:31:43 +0000 http://technology.amis.nl/blog/?p=1239#comment-91551 We are a Oracle solution provider in Malaysia and we have built many applications using Oracle Forms/Reports 6i. Most of the clients in Malaysia don't really need the web-form (either because of the infra overhead or additional app server cost) and we are only looking at 5-20 clients. So for us standalone client is sufficient. So, for clients that want web-form, we just take the 6i forms and recompile them on 10g to deploy on the forms server. Can Oracle bring back the standalone client please ? We are comtemplating moving all our apps to Java Swing otherwise. We are a Oracle solution provider in Malaysia and we have built many applications using Oracle Forms/Reports 6i. Most of the clients in Malaysia don’t really need the web-form (either because of the infra overhead or additional app server cost) and we are only looking at 5-20 clients. So for us standalone client is sufficient. So, for clients that want web-form, we just take the 6i forms and recompile them on 10g to deploy on the forms server. Can Oracle bring back the standalone client please ? We are comtemplating moving all our apps to Java Swing otherwise.

]]> By: Chad http://technology.amis.nl/blog/1239/oracle-forms-11g-under-construction/comment-page-1#comment-74412 Chad Tue, 27 Jun 2006 03:25:09 +0000 http://technology.amis.nl/blog/?p=1239#comment-74412 A lot of organizations are still sticking to Forms 6i because the client mode was more or less blown away for a pure web-based product. It doesn't make much sense to me why you would want to deploy a middle-tier in a manufacturing or distribution environment. It just adds overhead, reduces scalability, and adds and additional point of failure in the overall architecture. I would love to see Oracle fork the codebase and bring back a Forms & Reports standalone client. A lot of organizations are still sticking to Forms 6i because the client mode was more or less blown away for a pure web-based product. It doesn’t make much sense to me why you would want to deploy a middle-tier in a manufacturing or distribution environment. It just adds overhead, reduces scalability, and adds and additional point of failure in the overall architecture.

I would love to see Oracle fork the codebase and bring back a Forms & Reports standalone client.

]]> By: Patrick http://technology.amis.nl/blog/1239/oracle-forms-11g-under-construction/comment-page-1#comment-71893 Patrick Wed, 21 Jun 2006 16:22:42 +0000 http://technology.amis.nl/blog/?p=1239#comment-71893 Thanks for the info! Really good to see Oracle supporting forms. Thanks for the info! Really good to see Oracle supporting
forms.

]]> By: Grant Ronald http://technology.amis.nl/blog/1239/oracle-forms-11g-under-construction/comment-page-1#comment-71854 Grant Ronald Wed, 21 Jun 2006 13:33:41 +0000 http://technology.amis.nl/blog/?p=1239#comment-71854 Lucas - the use of the word "still"was not mean to weaken but to show that we "are still" committed - as in, we were always were committed and nothing changed - this is one of the key points I wanted to make - Oracle has had a clear published strategy and its has hardly changed.. The other point I need to make is that as per my second slide, all the features for 11 are targetted features and not committed features. Of course we are working hard to make sure all the features make version 11 but I just want people to be clear that, as we all know from our own experiences, some features MAY slip... Thanks for the write up and its good to see that our plans seem to be pretty much well accepted. Many thanks Grant Lucas – the use of the word “still”was not mean to weaken but to show that we “are still” committed – as in, we were always were committed and nothing changed – this is one of the key points I wanted to make – Oracle has had a clear published strategy and its has hardly changed..
The other point I need to make is that as per my second slide, all the features for 11 are targetted features and not committed features. Of course we are working hard to make sure all the features make version 11 but I just want people to be clear that, as we all know from our own experiences, some features MAY slip…
Thanks for the write up and its good to see that our plans seem to be pretty much well accepted.
Many thanks
Grant

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