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	<title>Comments on: Keeping up appearances with ADF 11g RichFaces &#8211; Context Sensitive Styling in a world of imperfect HTML with dynamic PageTemplate and Page Fragment includes</title>
	<atom:link href="http://technology.amis.nl/2008/10/21/keeping-up-appearances-with-adf-11g-richfaces-context-sensitive-styling-in-a-world-of-imperfect-html-with-dynamic-pagetemplate-and-page-fragment-includes/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://technology.amis.nl/2008/10/21/keeping-up-appearances-with-adf-11g-richfaces-context-sensitive-styling-in-a-world-of-imperfect-html-with-dynamic-pagetemplate-and-page-fragment-includes/?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=keeping-up-appearances-with-adf-11g-richfaces-context-sensitive-styling-in-a-world-of-imperfect-html-with-dynamic-pagetemplate-and-page-fragment-includes</link>
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		<title>By: Lucas Jellema</title>
		<link>http://technology.amis.nl/2008/10/21/keeping-up-appearances-with-adf-11g-richfaces-context-sensitive-styling-in-a-world-of-imperfect-html-with-dynamic-pagetemplate-and-page-fragment-includes/#comment-5564</link>
		<dc:creator>Lucas Jellema</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Oct 2008 04:26:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://technology.amis.nl/blog/?p=3702#comment-5564</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hoi Eric, &lt;br /&gt;
Thanks for your reaction. I realize that the number of templates could start to grow dramatically,  depending primarily on the number of layout-flavors. It is not something I would recommend lightly. However, the situation discussed is one where preferably the layout is applied from the outside to whatever HTML is rendered by the application. However, the HTML rendered by many JSP/JSF component based Web Apps is fairly horrible when it comes to outside-in application of styling. Since the components render HTML without much or even any mutual understanding, they all render pretty much self contained HTML which basically boils down to a lot of HTML tables being used. So style manipulation from the outside is a tough one.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Skinning will help fiddle with colors, fonts, decoration etc. but most of it is in-situ: it does not really change the position, ordering or structure of the pages. To achieve the latter, more dramatic action is required, of which the template based approach described above is an example. I would still hope that even under the different &#039;flavors&#039; the number of &#039;page patterns&#039;  is limited. So each layout flavor comes with just one to five or so page designs/structures for various types of pages (search, results, edit, master-detail,...). So the number of templates should be much smaller than the number of pages since each page falls into one of only a few layout-categories.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Dynamically manipulating the template itself is an interesting option - although that seems to merely relocate the issue: handling multiple variants of a template, only now in run-time code instead of design time templates. I am not sure that makes things easier. It does sound a lot like what Customization should be able to do for us by the way. MDS can hold various editions of any XML file, presumably including templates. So that should be a way to implement the &#039;apply appropriate customization at run time&#039;. I have not tried out to manipulate the template itself - it feels more difficult than maintaining several templates manually. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
With MDS based customization you by and large create multiple flavors of a single XML file, leaving the application of the appropriate file to the run time MDS framework. You create the various flavors more or less in the same way as you would create the original file. Not sure whether the XSLT based approach would be easier for non-ADF skilled designers. To manipulate the template - either in the visual editor or through XSLT - you still need to understand the basic ADF layout (container) components. You do not manipulate XHTML that is produced by the template but the template - an ADF page - itself. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
best regards, Lucas]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hoi Eric, <br />
Thanks for your reaction. I realize that the number of templates could start to grow dramatically,  depending primarily on the number of layout-flavors. It is not something I would recommend lightly. However, the situation discussed is one where preferably the layout is applied from the outside to whatever HTML is rendered by the application. However, the HTML rendered by many JSP/JSF component based Web Apps is fairly horrible when it comes to outside-in application of styling. Since the components render HTML without much or even any mutual understanding, they all render pretty much self contained HTML which basically boils down to a lot of HTML tables being used. So style manipulation from the outside is a tough one.</p>
<p>Skinning will help fiddle with colors, fonts, decoration etc. but most of it is in-situ: it does not really change the position, ordering or structure of the pages. To achieve the latter, more dramatic action is required, of which the template based approach described above is an example. I would still hope that even under the different &#8216;flavors&#8217; the number of &#8216;page patterns&#8217;  is limited. So each layout flavor comes with just one to five or so page designs/structures for various types of pages (search, results, edit, master-detail,&#8230;). So the number of templates should be much smaller than the number of pages since each page falls into one of only a few layout-categories.</p>
<p>Dynamically manipulating the template itself is an interesting option &#8211; although that seems to merely relocate the issue: handling multiple variants of a template, only now in run-time code instead of design time templates. I am not sure that makes things easier. It does sound a lot like what Customization should be able to do for us by the way. MDS can hold various editions of any XML file, presumably including templates. So that should be a way to implement the &#8216;apply appropriate customization at run time&#8217;. I have not tried out to manipulate the template itself &#8211; it feels more difficult than maintaining several templates manually. </p>
<p>With MDS based customization you by and large create multiple flavors of a single XML file, leaving the application of the appropriate file to the run time MDS framework. You create the various flavors more or less in the same way as you would create the original file. Not sure whether the XSLT based approach would be easier for non-ADF skilled designers. To manipulate the template &#8211; either in the visual editor or through XSLT &#8211; you still need to understand the basic ADF layout (container) components. You do not manipulate XHTML that is produced by the template but the template &#8211; an ADF page &#8211; itself. </p>
<p>best regards, Lucas</p>
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		<title>By: Eric van Mourik</title>
		<link>http://technology.amis.nl/2008/10/21/keeping-up-appearances-with-adf-11g-richfaces-context-sensitive-styling-in-a-world-of-imperfect-html-with-dynamic-pagetemplate-and-page-fragment-includes/#comment-5563</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric van Mourik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 21:14:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://technology.amis.nl/blog/?p=3702#comment-5563</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Lucas, Interesting stuff! However, I think the original purpose of page templates is basically to ensure some (layout) consistancy across pages within an application. So in general you will have just a few templates for your application(s). For example one template per type of screen. I think the way you use the template mechanism for dynamic, runtime manipulation of (individual) pages can be very usefull. But you can end up with a lot of templates. (Even more templates than pages if you want total flexibility in the layout manipulation of each and every individual page.) A request for a new layout variant means building (by a ADF-skilled developer) and deploying a new ADF page template, which might be cumbersome in the end. Did you investigate possibilities to dynamically manipulate the content of a template.jsfx at runtime by applying xslt stylesheet on it, just before the template is applied to the page that is rendered? If that is possible, one template can do the job. With regard to your example, that template should contain just the facets. (As you stated the facets are the same for your template1 and template2). And the components that make tne distinction between template1 and template2 should be added dynamically to the template.jspx by the xslt(s). Such an approach has some similarities with the MDS customization mechanism, I think? And an xslt-based approach may be easier to adopt by non-ADF-skilled designers? Really interested in your thoughts and experiences on this.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lucas, Interesting stuff! However, I think the original purpose of page templates is basically to ensure some (layout) consistancy across pages within an application. So in general you will have just a few templates for your application(s). For example one template per type of screen. I think the way you use the template mechanism for dynamic, runtime manipulation of (individual) pages can be very usefull. But you can end up with a lot of templates. (Even more templates than pages if you want total flexibility in the layout manipulation of each and every individual page.) A request for a new layout variant means building (by a ADF-skilled developer) and deploying a new ADF page template, which might be cumbersome in the end. Did you investigate possibilities to dynamically manipulate the content of a template.jsfx at runtime by applying xslt stylesheet on it, just before the template is applied to the page that is rendered? If that is possible, one template can do the job. With regard to your example, that template should contain just the facets. (As you stated the facets are the same for your template1 and template2). And the components that make tne distinction between template1 and template2 should be added dynamically to the template.jspx by the xslt(s). Such an approach has some similarities with the MDS customization mechanism, I think? And an xslt-based approach may be easier to adopt by non-ADF-skilled designers? Really interested in your thoughts and experiences on this.</p>
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